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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 14, 2010 7:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Streaming Pollution?

Hold on there pardner...you talking to me?! Are you talking to ME!??

Well, okay, I can't, but plenty of people I'd never call liars have discussed their abilities to do just this (please note that many of these threads discuss other issues, as in various file DL formats, sizes, etc.; but in general, there are those high tech sorts, strat, tiger, huntr, people I trust to know "how" that do maintain there is a subtle difference, detectable with high end kwipment levels, etc.):

http://www.archive.org/post/261285/the-cymbals-test

http://www.archive.org/post/261395/differentiate-betwteen-a-mp3-at-320-and-a-flac

http://www.archive.org/post/245208/mp3-vs-flac-shn

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Oct 14, 2010 8:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Streaming Pollution?

I knew I'd ignite controversy with this one - I'm just saying that if an experiment were ever conducted along these lines, I'm relatively certain that the results would indicate that nobody could tell the difference.

But I see micah's post down there and I agree that if you continually burn CDs and then rip them again and again and again the quality goes down the toilet. I never burn CDs because I have an mp3 player, so I guess I forgot about that contingency.

And I am a bit obsessive about eventually obtaining the lossless copies of shows, if only because that's what the trading community accepts. So I guess the lesson is, never taking anything I say too seriously.

edit: I hadn't seen that post by monte! That's great, never thought I'd see a Fourier series on a grateful dead forum... what's interesting about that particular series is that although the waves converge pointwise to the square wave, they don't converge uniformly. You can see the little "horns" at the points of discontinuity, and those horns have basically a constant height.

In case I haven't already scared people away with my music theory digressions....

This post was modified by midnightcarousel on 2010-10-14 15:38:46

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 14, 2010 11:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Streaming Pollution?

Are you kidding? You won't scare anyone away methinks; why, there have any been threads about Nyquist frequencies (Noise Collector, of course, was involved!), which I had to learn about while analyzing various animal calls and such, back in the days of the Analogic Waveform Analyzer, which was "must have piece of equipment for acoustic analysis of the animal kingdom, costing ~ $15k, in 1979 when I (well, the university) got my first one...of course NOW, a simple program like Canary costing ~ $100 does it all and more! And there are even "free" softward programs that I am sure Monte could tell us about that do the same sorts of analyses.

Want to "see" what a call of a toad "looks" like? Here's one:



Attachment: Toad_Calls__waveforms_.jpg

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Oct 14, 2010 8:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Streaming Pollution?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e9CkhBb18E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IXmHqPWxUw&;feature=related

Are you talkin' to me ?

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Poster: gmcgill Date: Oct 16, 2010 11:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Streaming Pollution?

I agree that an mp3 file created with a high quality encoder at high enough bit rate is transparent for most people. I certainly can't ABX a lossy vs lossless version of most songs. My age and being front row at too many WHO concerts in the early 70s don't help in that regard!

The pollution issue is more around the notion that if one has an mp3 file, then creates an AUDIO CD from the mp3 (i.e, converting back to WAV or PCM format), then someone else rips that CD to mp3, one would have transcoded from mp3 to mp3. Each transcode from lossy to lossy creates a loss of information (different, but think of of this as similar to each generation of a tape). The value of the lossless (e.g., FLAC) is that one can create a lossy version from this with only one generation. And with space so cheap these days, keeping a lossless archive seems like a good idea.

EDIT: I was not replying to the post above in particular, just to this entire thread.

This post was modified by gmcgill on 2010-10-14 15:12:48

This post was modified by gmcgill on 2010-10-14 15:13:14

This post was modified by gmcgill on 2010-10-16 18:28:13